This week I'm also finishing up the new Christmas
single "Xmas Joys" for gay singer Roger Kuhn. He will be filming a video for it
- it's a fun, dancey throwback to 50's/girl group/early glam shuffle-rock. Roger
currently has a rock video "What's Your Name?" at Number 7 on the LOGO channel's
"New Now Next" hit list. That's yours truly on black Les Paul electric guitar in
the video. I produced "What's Your Name?" for Roger here at the studio.
In June of
2007, I had the honor to be asked to perform in France at the Paris Hard Rock
Cafe for the international Jeff Buckley 10th anniversary of his death Tribute
show. Plus, I got a free week in Paris out of it! It's an
interesting story: I was invited because none of the international
acts offered to do Buckley's cover of Benjamin Britten's "Corpus Christi
Carol"-- It's a bitch to sing and play-- so I offered and they invited me.
Thus all the songs on Buckley's "Grace" album were covered for the
concert. In a way, as I was the only (openly) gay performer at the show,
doing a song by a gay composer that Buckley also did (and, considering the
controversies over Buckley's own sexuality...), I kinda felt I was
"representin''" for Buckley's many gay fans. There's pics of my
performance at the Paris Hard Rock under "Pics" at my
www.MySpace.com/RobertUrban.
This summer I recorded gay pop singer Matthew Duffy's vocals for his current
new CD "The Healing Machine", which will be released in November. I also play bass and guitar on his CD. Additionally, this month I produced a new bonus track single for Matt. It's a full-band, dance-pop cover of the Cat Stevens' classic hit "The Wind" - different from the accapella version Matt sings on "The Healing Machine". "The Wind" is already getting airplay on radio shows around the U.S.
PM: Wow! That's
some schedule. You have your hand in so many aspects of the independent
music world. Between recording your own music, producing events and for
other artists, and performing with RUB, which has been the
most rewarding?
RU: It's all kind of blurred into one big music-making
effusion, I guess. One thing I've learned - it's an honor to be a
musician. I love playing. Whether it's for my own stuff or for others - it
all just kinda pours out now. I guess of the three aspects of my
work you mentioned, playing my own stuff is the most rewarding (and the most
traumatic!).
PM: No doubt! In "Rock Widow", the title
track on your album of the same name, you sing about how many of your former
bandmates from the past have retired from the music business. But you
are
still involved in music as well as other creative endeavors. What
motivated you to keep pursuing your art that many of them didn't have?
RU: Well (Laughs), there's seems to be three main things that eliminate rockers,
especially hetero ones, over the years: drugs and/or Jesus and/or
girlfriends. I suppose going bald and getting a paunch may also be a
factor.... Luckily I've more or less avoided the pitfalls of all these.
Personally speaking - I'll play 'til I drop.
PM: We can all be
thankful for that! (Laughs)
RU: Most straight guys will say they became a rock musician
so they could meet more girls. My answer is really the same - only mine is
tailored to my gay orientation. When I was in high school it became apparent
to
me that I could hang out with really cool, good-lookin' rocker dude guys
if I was in a band. The rest is history. Now, my goals are hopefully based
less
on wishful sex and more on lofty artistic ideals - but I think there'll always
be a bit of male-bonding fantasy in my pursuit of music.
PM: Do you
still keep in touch with your former bandmates through the years?
RU: I do
with many. Over the years, we get in touch - especially as we collaborate on
converting old analog band tapes to digital, or old band photos to image files,
etc. Drummers seem to be especially long-lasting friends. I guess
they are the least diva-ish. My trusty bass player Steve Sullivan played
bass for me way back in the 1980's. At that time, he quit music to get a
PhD. He moved to Washington, DC. Now suddenly after 25 years, he's
moved back to NYC and happily we're back playing together. Go figure. The
bond between musicians-- It's one of life's special
joys.
PM: I've
noticed that! Which album from your discography means the most to you,
creatively?
RU: Gasp! I love all my children equally! Seriously - "Godless" I think is the best "singer-songwriter" album I've done. " Elegies"
has my best instrumental work. "Rock Widow" is my best overall "rock" effort.
PM: What makes
Robert Urban's music distinctive?
RU: I have no idea. For better or
worse, permit me to opine: A queer dares to wield electric lead guitar (the
greatest phallic symbol of our times) in the vein of classic blues rock? The
combo of rock and classical music styles? Philosophical, nihilist, Nietzschean,
pretentious lyrics? Probably my throwback-to-the-late-60's psychedelia
style of sound!
PM: When you listen to your earlier works, do you
hear your own progress in your guitar work?
RU: In the very early recordings, I sure
do. Lordy, it was a struggle for me. When I was coming up, rock was pretty
much a straight man's macho game-- I always felt like the odd man out
looking
in. But actually, when I listen back, I'm better than I thought I was at
the time. I was always so hard on myself. Now I listen to some of
the guitar solos on my retrospective "Who I Was" CD, which is compiled from my
80's recordings, and I they really make me feel proud.
PM: Where
did the idea of the annual New York City Fresh Fruit Festival come
from?
RU: I've produced some shows for them; performed for them, and
have been a consultant member of their Board of Directors, but honestly I have
no idea where they came from. You'll have to find and ask an original "Fruitie"! They are an odd bunch of bananas (so to
speak...)
PM: "Odd" is a good thing-- and so are
bananas! (Laughs) What motivates your in your sense of community?
Like, when you wake up in the morning (afternoon?! evening?!), what's the
driving force that makes you want to do more for the GLBT community?
RU: It's
just a natural gravitation towards kindred spirits - since I'm queer I tend to
gravitate towards my own kind, I guess. And since I'm a musician I lean
towards the LGBT arts community within the larger LGBT mainstream
establishment.
When I was a student back in
Connecticut, I had a phenomenal private music teacher, a gay man who's name
is Burton Hatheway. Burton is still active and teaching today, . He taught
me
so much. I could never repay him for all he's done for me. He once told me
the best way to pay him back would be to do for others what he did for me.
I often think of him in all my musical doings. It's rarely noticed or
spoke of in the GLBT community - which is unfortunate - but there is a strong
generational continuum that goes on: Younger gays learn from older gays in
deep
important ways. Essential culture gets passed down. It's is not just a
hetero phenomenon.
This may sound REALLY
corny - but I feel like the more I give it all away, the more I have. I
have found that if I can help a gay artist with his or her musicianship, it
is very empowering for them-- and helps them gain self-esteem so as to better
tackle all the social obstacles the world throws at them. I tend to let
others sort out their own "out" issues. I don't preach "outness".
But I can tell you that a solid, confident gay musical artist is in better
psychological shape to be "out", if they so choose to be. To tell the
truth, my strongest sense of community is not even with other queers - it's
not even with other humans. It's with the natural world. I'm more at home alone
with
plants and animals than I am with humans. That's why I also do garden
design for townhouses as a side-career here in Manhattan. I'm happiest
when I can spend a day with only non-human natural flora around me. Humans
are a part of my sense of world community, but sadly, whether straight or queer,
we have pretty much wrecked the planet.
PM: You're talking
to an animal lover, so I agree! Animals-- and plants, I guess-- are
always more loyal than people. How do you feel about artists that use
Outmusic to further their career, then shy away from the gay aspect after they
achieve some level of "mainstream" recognition? For example, artists that
submit their work to the Outmusic Awards and may even win, but don't put a
link to Outmusic on their website?
RU: You are talking to someone that has
about a dozen links to Outmusic on his website! (Laughs) That being said, I'm
not sure I wanna get mucked up in this issue. The last thing I wanna do is
run around playing the "outer than thou" game. Frankly, you should know by
now that any artist that would use an LGBT arts organization to advance his
career would probably also use everyone and everything around them - so Outmusic
need not feel so especially victimized. On the other hand, as founder of
Gay Guitarists Worldwide, I know of many musical artists who are very out and
proud and who are not even members of Outmusic. Along those lines, one
might point out that the powers-that-be in Outmusic "use" the Outmusic
membership for their own self-interest ends. The game plays both ways, you
know.
PM: Hmmm... I never thought of it that way until
now. Along those lines! Do you believe people should always be "out"? I believe that everyone has a right to privacy, yet I also
believe the world will never know how many of us there are out there unless
we all come out of the closet en masse.
RU: I don't really care too much whether
someone is "out" or not. I am used to dealing with artists.
Artists can have
notoriously messed up lives. All that messed-up-ness can be a great source
of turbulence, originality, and inspiration. For example - If the very
troubled Beethoven really understood himself, we might not have all that
glorious music. But do keep yer eyes on the prize. The goal of all
this "outness" is for the distinction between "gay" and "straight" to eventually
melt away and vanish - and for everyone to be as one. I'm queer but I'm
not separatist. In our gay establishment, the loudest voices calling for
"outness" are often the shrillest and most separatist and most heterophobic. We
should be "out" out of strength, not "out" out of weakness or fear or
hatred. It's bad enough our modern culture is so unnecessarily polarized
between the "gay" and "straight", between "out" and "closeted". In life
there really are no clear borders. In any case--- in our current
high-tech, tabloid-obsessed society-- no one can stay closeted for long
anyway. So if you're queer and you know it, you may as well be "out" because everyone will know it if they want to know it.
PM: True! I have to know the answer to this. It's been really bugging
me. Some people have speculated that in the independent gay music scene,
the male artists are motivated mostly by financial gain and the hopes of being
signed to a major label, whereas the female artists are mostly motivated by
their love of making music and their sense of community. I've asked so
many artists about this. What do you think?
RU: (Laughs) "Financial gain" ?!?!? I pissed my life away to play music. I turned
down careers in other, more lucrative fields to strum my geetar. I'm
satisfied if I can just eek out a living doing it. Actually, your question
is a deep one. I see it in a different context. The problem plaguing
many gay male artists is more of a "diva-wanna-be" fantasy issue. It's not
that they mainly want to achieve financial gain, it's that they wanna be a STAR!
It has been my experience that lesbians are more rooted in the fundamentals of
real, live, meat-and-potatoes music making, and have developed their own network
for doing do. Too many gay males wanna be frontman and thus mistake star
power for talent. That being said, look around at the current arts scene
in America: EVERYONE is mistaking star-attitude for talent. Rock has
devolved into a bunch of 17-year old "senza talenta faceheads". Hey, am I
ranting yet?
PM: I was hoping you would! Are you
currently working on a new album?
RU: I should be.
PM: In
addition to making music, producing, and performing, you also write
reviews for
www.AfterElton.com. You must get to see a lot of what's going on in popular
culture. How do you feel about the recent explosion of gay
culture in independent film and music, on the Web, and especially on
TV? Do you feel it's an accurate reflection of our
community?
RU: The explosion is good. What's bad is that
most of it is bad! I suppose the explosion is an accurate reflection of
SOMEONE's gay community, but not mine. (Sigh!) So many offerings seem to
carry the maudlin weight of old-school 1980's gay sensibility. Of course,
as I've said, gays have the right to be as superficial as straights - so we
end
up with ca-ca like "Another Gay Movie" and "Queer Duck"-- films which are
actually no worse than what Hetero Hollywood cranks out. Gays are trying
soooooo hard to find a zeitgeist or pop social norm for themselves-- perhaps too
hard. Having been discovered by reality TV, we all try to put on such a
good face for each other and for the mainstream straight world. The
problem is, gay sexuality cuts across all kinds of men. Some of us just
wince at the thought of a "gay norm".
PM: Is there a major label
artist, gay or straight, male or female, from the past who has been an unsung
hero, or who never got the attention they deserved? Like, who may
have been a great influence on you?
RU: (Sigh!) For me, it's the great
rock artists of the era beginning with the Beatles, running thru the mid-sixties
British invasion, and onto the glorious psychedelic late 60's. Of all of
them, Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull had the strongest influence in me, especially
as a guitarist and showman. I even studied flute to mimic him.
There's actually a lot of Ian Anderson-inspired music & lyrics in my songs -
which today may be unnapreciated by today's listeners.
PM: How important is it to keep the music "pure"?
RU: Very! It's the purity that lies buried deep down
inside. In this world, which humans have pretty much wrecked; and in which
everything is mere media fodder and nothing is important anymore, one can
only hope for a little purity. It's like a holy grail. Of course,
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "pure" -- so I'm answering in a
general musical sense.
PM: You got it! When I say "pure" I
mean the music. I have no problem with dirty lyrics! Do you have any
special friendships with anyone else in the gay music community?
RU: Well,
there's YOU! (Laughs)
PM: Aw, thanks! And I'm not even a
musician!
RU: I guess my partner of 20 years, NYC restaurateur Morgan
Humphries would be high on the list. I don't really have many queer
friends in the "Let's hang out!" kind of way. I'm not that social in that
I go out with "friends" much. Being partnered kinda does that to
you. I'm more likely to go hang out with straight friends. And I'm
even more likely to spend my day alone. But in the way I work with many
LGBT artists-- in my capacity as music producer, private music instructor,
bandmate, arranger, composer, etc.-- I do get to know many people on a very
deep, substratum kind of "soul" level. In my work I have to be kind of an empath
at times-- and if "friendship" is not quite the right word, there is a knowing
bonding that goes on. It's quite profound. It certainly is "special" to me.
PM: What's the biggest professional problem that gay
musicians will have to face in their path to success? And, I mean "success" not just financially but "successful" as in "spiritually
fulfilled".
RU: Well, I think talent is a universal. Having real
talent and real inspiration can overcome the obstacle of homophobia and
anti-gay politics. That being said, we could use less divas and more
solidly talented artists out there in Gayland. And THAT being said, this
is a problem for the whole mainstream world and not just for gays. As for
prospects for gay artists becoming successful these days, beware. The U.S.
is becoming a really weird place. It ain't pretty. Like Rome before
its fall, people in the U.S. are becoming reactionary, seeing spooks everywhere,
hating, dividing, fighting. The U.S. is becoming alienated from the rest
of the planet, and the U.S. government is more and more alienated from the
majority of U.S. citizens. Things are bound to get even more ugly as it
all goes down the tube.
The BIGGEST problem facing all musicians-- gay
or straight-- is that the world is mutating towards a kind of virtual fakeness
in the arts - where nothing is of any real value any more. The music
entertainment industry is morphing away into some kind multimedia charade of CGI
digitally doctored fantasy of perfection. I don't know if people will even
be listening to music in twenty years. It may not provide enough sensory
stimuli to be entertaining. They may prefer to hardwire their brains into
some kind of multi-media multi-sensory experience... Perhaps enhanced by a new
round of specialty drugs.
PM: Wow! You've just given
me enough food for thought to keep me full for a week! So, without
the benefit of a major label, can an artist achieve financial success,
motivated by just their love of making music?
RU: I don't know about "financial" success, but if "salvation" is considered a success, I'd say
"yes". You may be confusing "artists" with "entertainers". Artists
do what they do because they HAVE to do it, whatever the results.
"Entertainers" are in show business, and are thus more apt to be good at making
money from their craft. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who loves music is
of a different, special breed. To be able to make music is a great honor.
If one tries very, very, very hard, it's possible to make a living doing music.
One thing is for sure. Those who don't try do not achieve financial
success.
PM: Is any segment within our community
underrepresented in the media? Even in the gay media?
RU: I think the
transgender segment is grossly underrepresented. Many gay men still mistakenly
confuse transgendered persons with drag queens. Hopefully this is all changing.
The LGBT world may discover that transgenders are the new up-and-coming force
within our community. We should embrace them more than we do. Most
transgenders I've met are solid, responsible citizens who have their feet on the
ground way more than lots of gay men I know. Our community could benefit
from their levelheaded, no-nonsense approach to life.
PM: I
agree. At an Outmusic Open Mic a few months ago, the host
introduced you as "The Last Outmusician", meaning that with the Outmusic
Awards on hiatus, you would be the last artist to win the title of "Outmusician
of the Year". You later told me, "The last? I
was the
first!" You clarified that you were out at a time
when for a musician, being out meant pretty much being ignored by the media or
even career death. Did you ever have any issues with being out at
that time?
RU: (Laughs) At the Open Mic I think I was actually making a
self-deprecating joke on how damn ancient I am.... As for Outmusic's award, I
know some view it as the "OUTmusician of the Year Award". I always saw it
as the "outMUSICIAN of the Year Award". The outness for me was always just
a given - it's the "musician of the year" part I cherished.
PM: Great point!
RU: As I'm sure
all gays have, I did have issues with coming out in the past. For me, the
issues were more personal. It may sound odd, but in my youth the guys
in my band
meant more to me than what society thought of me. I could care less what
my management thought of me, but if my gayness put off one of my bandmates,
it really hurt.PM: A few of your songs deal with the conflict
between certain religions and being out and proud. Have you ever
experienced that conflict personally?
RU: I was raised
Roman Catholic. Yet I was "out" even as a teenager. I can remember while
in high school, I was confronting my Catholic pastor and demanding to be
excommunicated because, technically, according to the Church, gays were sinners
and should not be members of the Church. I was such a wise-ass. In
responding to my heady demand, my pastor said smugly, "We won't give you the
satisfaction!" I thought that was a great answer. It's funny.
So many gays have issues with the church. But really, the Catholic Church
has been the gayest institution for the last two thousand years! Everything
about it - the ritual of the Mass, the monasteries, the church art, the
all-male club of priests and apostles, the all female club of convents, the
Jesuit logic, the appeals to passivity, gentleness and "love of all
men"... It's all so iconically gay. It's also self-hating and conflicted...
but soooo gay.
Although baptized Catholic, I could never be one. I see
only the blind indifference of Nature, as would a follower of Zen or Nihiilism.
I could never believe in a God. God is just an idealization dreamt up
by
some patriarchal straight men who were so conceited as to imagine that the
world is ruled by someone who thinks just like them. It's really pathetic
when
you think about it. I can't believe women follow along with
it. But the Church itself never really bugged me. It's
toothless. I actually consider myself fortunate to have had a private
Catholic education. It was a way better education than what the public
schools had to offer. Plus I know I may have been beaten up by bullies in
a public school. Anti-gay sentiment is like gayness itself-- it cuts across
all religions.
PM: How true. So, on to lighter
subjects. Where are your favorite places to hang out in New York
City?
RU: I'll never tell!
PM: Hmmm! Many native New
Yorkers say that New York City is not as exciting as it used to be-- with
the dearth of so many gay bars and clubs, sex clubs, performance venues,
etc... What do you have to say about that?
RU: If you mean
some kind of romantic notion of artsy/cruisy gay bohemia, I never cared too
much for those kinds of places. If you mean the loss of lots
of liberal gay sex, you may also be thinking of pre-AIDS-era NYC. I think
some of the complaining is just the bemoaning of lost youth - which is only
natural. For what it's worth-- the parks are still here, if you know what
I mean....
PM: Not at all! (Laughs)
RU: But, yeah, it sucks. NYC is going
downhill for all kinds of reasons. It's becoming a joyless artless place
for
money-making, soulless breeders. The NYC theater scene has turned
into some kind of dreadful Disney/Vegas hybrid (kinda like all entertainment
these days...), but the NYC opera, ballet and symphony scenes are still real,
excellent and thriving. I especially like to go to the opera whenever I
can.
PM: What element of New York City, if any, do you miss?
RU: I miss all the small and mid-sized live rock clubs. They used to be
everywhere. China Club, Cat Club, CBGB's, TRAX, S.N.A.F.U...
PM: What does "Gay Pride" mean to you as we enter 2008? Has "Gay
Pride" become just an overused, hollow term?
RU: I think the concept
and the term was historically and psycho-socially necessary. It served to
counteract the incredible amount of unfair self-hatred and guilt inculcated
in
us during the pre-gay liberation era. But I don't think of myself as "proud" of my given sexual orientation any more than I am "proud" of my given
hair color. However, I most certainly am GLAD I'm gay. Not a
day goes by that I don't observe the mess that is the straight world and
say to myself, "thank god, I'm not like that!" Hallelujah. I think it' was
Freud who observed that homosexuality is the sexuality of children and of
the ancients. We are a very special kind of creature in the overall scheme
of things. That's why we are often mythically depicted as angels. We are
way more than just a drag-queen atop a float in a gay pride
parade.
If the term "gay pride" has lost some
luster - perhaps it can morph to mean newfound LGBT political clout. The
LGBT community needs to coalesce into a potent voting block. Other minorities
have pulled it off, we can too. It's time the politicians kissed OUR asses
for a change.
PM: I
agree. They'll start kissing our asses when they realize they need the
votes. I personally feel that it's too much of a compliment to
call politicians whores; "real" whores are usually much more moral people
and more fun to hang out with at parties. hey, am I ranting yet
now?! But anyway, Do you ever get the time to just sit back and relax
in your fabulous apartment?
RU: Less and less it seems... But with the
recording and teaching studio located here, I do get to spend a lot of
time here-- albeit working. Actually, we just totally redid our bedroom.
You must
come and see!
PM: Sure will! You are also in a unique position
in that you are in a long-term relationship. Do you have any "secrets
for success" in that field?!
RU: Morgan and I get asked
this a lot and our answer is always the same. DON'T THINK ABOUT IT!
Don't "talk about the relationship" too much with your partner. Keep some
anonymity in the sexual relationship. Keep the sex trashy. Don't drown in
too much lovey-dovey stuff.
Seriously - I think one key factor is that
we both work different hours from each other and thus we don't get
to see each other nearly as much as we wish we could. The result is
that
we are
always
trying to find time to be together-- which for guys, gay or straight,
is a good thing. Guys need space. Guys need "alone-time". Too much
time together is not good. That's when lovers start seeking outside
stimuli. Out time together is rare and thus very precious. It's
something we are always looking forward to!
PM: There's always a lot to look
forward to with Robert Urban! See MUCH more at:
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